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Ok, so from here...


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Ok, so from here...
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Reputation:98
Level:Superstar
Since:Dec 24, 2006

March 10, 2008 9:34 am

Because I have very little idea (ok, none whatsoever) about how the ranking system etc works, what exactly is left between now & the start of the NCAA tournament for SMC and what will it take for them to get in?

I've heard something about a WCC tournament, were all the games to this point to decide rankings for the tournament or something?

Any help is much appreciated, thanks.


Ok, so from here...
-
Reputation:90
Level:All-Star
Since:Feb 20, 2008

March 10, 2008 12:58 pm

The WCC is given one guaranteed berth into March Madness. The WCC gets to choose what method they want to use to award its berth- Award to conference champion or if a conference has a Tournament, then award the berth to the Tournament champion. The WCC awards its berth to the Tourny Champion. So after St. Mary's was eliminated last night, its only chance and hope of getting in the Tournament is through at "at large" invitation. The NCAA has a commitee (usually made up of the large conferences) which meets and awards the at large berths and sets the Tournament seeding. Historically, after the large conferences gobble up the at-large berths (the PAC 10, SEC, Big Ten, ACC usually each get 4-5 at large invites) there are about 5 independent at large berths left. This is where St. Mary's hope lies. These berths are suppose to be based upon RPI, strength of schedule, non-conference schedule, etc. However, ultimately since humans are involved behind closed doors, the berths are pretty political and St. Mary's has little or no chance of getting one, based upon the following weaknesses:

1) Played 4 games outside of CA, lost 3 of 4.

2) Lost their bracket buster game (used to show case teams from mid-major programs); at home.

3) Lost its conference title game and tourney game.

4) Late season momentum is plummeting with, I believe,  losses in 3 of last 5 games?

5) Extremely weak non-conference schedule.

6) Injuries to key players.

7) Lack of Tourny historical resume.

Most likely headed to the NIT.

 

 


Ok, so from here...
-
Reputation:94
Level:All-Star
Since:Apr 27, 2007

March 10, 2008 2:43 pm

"the berths are pretty political and St. Mary's has little or no chance of getting one"

Not true.  Despite the loss last night, they still have a good shot at getting in, but they kind of need Gonzaga to beat San Diego tonight.  Otherwise, San Diego gets the Auto-bid, Gonzaga gets an at large, and St. Mary's could be left high and dry because the committee may not let 3 teams in from WCC.  But assuming Gonzaga beats San Diego St. Mary's will likely get in too.

Now, you could make a case that they don't deserve a shot because of their late-season struggles, but to say they have "little or no chance" with an RPI in the 30's is just flat out not true.  Here are some other comments.

"2) Lost their bracket buster game (used to show case teams from mid-major programs); at home."

The loss to Kent st. will hurt with regard to seeding, but it is not going eliminate them.  The committee will recognize that Kent St. has proven itself to be a good team.  One thing that will hurt is that this loss was at home.

"3) Lost its conference title game and tourney game."

The "conference title" game was against Gonzaga at Gonzaga.  Again, this would be more of a seeding issue, but losing to Gonzaga on the road is not going to eliminate you.

"5) Extremely weak non-conference schedule."

Absolutely not true.  Drake, Oregon, Seton Hall, Texas, SDSU........most definitely not "extremely weak"

"6) Injuries to key players."

The only injury I'm aware of is O'leary which just occured last night, and I don't think they have said anything about him being out for the tournament.  Samhan was injured, but he's been back for like 3 games.  Honestly, you kind of just lost all your credibility here.  I'm not sure you know anything about St. Mary's hoops. 


Ok, so from here...
-
Reputation:90
Level:All-Star
Since:Feb 20, 2008

March 10, 2008 5:47 pm

I like the way you take up for your team, but lets take a look at your non conference analysis,

I assume you list Oregon & Seton Hall becuas they are name schools in big conferences. Ok fair enough, Oregon is 6th in the Pac 10 with a 9-9 record, Seton Hall is 11th in the Big East with a 7-11 record. Dazzling.

Why you would even list SDSU I have no idea. Certainly, the St. Mary's coaching staff doesn't want to be lobbing the selection committee by using a win over the vaunted SDSU. In any event, whatever the heck conference they play in they are 5th at 9-7; at least they are over 500 unlike the other two.

Drake, was a great win. The downside is it happened in the 2nd game of the season and therefore is realistically moot at this point.

Texas - they beat you by 18, could have easily been more. So other than saying you played them, you probably don't want to be advocating that game with the selection committe either.

Of course you have Gonzaga. You beat them in O-T @ home and got smoked in Spokane. The WCC uses a tricked up tournament system (automatically seeding the top two teams into the semi-finals right out of the gate) to try and get the top two teams into the final game; hoping all along that the Zags would lose, so the Zags can get an at large bid, thus allowing the WCC to get two teams in the Dance. It worked several (numerous) years ago with Peperdine, but hasn't since and won't this year since St. Mary's didn't perform. 

 


Ok, so from here...
-
Reputation:94
Level:All-Star
Since:Apr 27, 2007

March 10, 2008 6:21 pm

Armchair-

From St. Mary's performances over the last two or three weeks, your personal opinion may be that they don't deserve to get in. 

In fact, based on their shoddy performances over last few weeks (aside from Simpson), even I have my doubts about how they will perform if they get in.

But to say they have "little or no shot" of getting in shows that you're just not paying attention.  CBS, ESPN, even the announcers at the game last night (although I don't think you were watching based on your "injury analysis") have all said St. Mary's is in.  An RPI in the 30's and two or three quality wins, combined with their record will get them in if.....and this is the key....if San Diego doesn't get the auto bid.  

If Gonzaga wins tonight, it is likely St. Mary's will get in.  Of course anything is possible with the committe and if San Diego wins tonight the Gaels are in serious trouble, but otherwise, they have a pretty good shot.  At least 50/50.

And no, Drake is not "moot."  Again, that is kind of a ridiculous thing to say. The committe has short memories, but not that short.  When they look at the quality wins, Drake will count.

And...Oregon is a quality win.  Anytime you beat a team that is .500 in Pac-10 play, it is big, but particularly this year when the Pac-10 is stacked.  I could say the same about beating a Big East team, but I happen to think the Big East is over-rated, so I won't go there.


Ok, so from here...
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Reputation:94
Level:All-Star
Since:Apr 27, 2007

March 10, 2008 6:26 pm

Here is CBS's field projection.  Just updated this morning.  They are saying St. Mary's is in.  Not even that they are a bubble team, but that they are in.

http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/1063910
9


Ok, so from here...
-
Reputation:94
Level:All-Star
Since:Apr 27, 2007

March 10, 2008 6:29 pm

Here is ESPN's projection.  Again, just updated this morning.  They've got St. Mary's as a 9 seed.  You have no clue what you're talking about.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/bracketology


Ok, so from here...
-
Reputation:90
Level:All-Star
Since:Feb 20, 2008

March 10, 2008 6:29 pm

In any event, good luck to you. It would be nice if another Mid Major program received a berth instead of 5 place big conference school.t


Ok, so from here...
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Reputation:93
Level:All-Star
Since:Nov 6, 2007

March 11, 2008 10:12 am

not sure why anybody thinks st. mary's is getting in the tourney. they are not. they beat noone but gonzaga, who is unranked. beating horrible teams in conference isn't gonna get you in. sorry 

i can care less what joe lunardi thinks, st. mary's is out, guaranteed.