| |
|
|
Reputation:93
Level:All-Star
Since:Jan 14, 2008
|
|
"Fine, let's forget the 2nd since it was created when we only had muskets and cannons. If we follow the same logic we should forget the 1st Amendment then as well. There was no internet when the 1st was created, no television either."
Not only is that a cop-out. It is an example of a common logical error that people use, one that is recognized as such by those who study logics an philosophy. It goes something along the lines of one person making an argument based on sound logic, and then another person using that logic to support the conclusion of something aburd. It doesn't work because you are not understanding all the premises in the first argument.
Here they are:
Premise:
1. In the 1700s people had only rifles, muskets and cannons.
Premise:
2. The writers of the second ammendment used these arms to defend themselves against the British
Premise.
3. Governments are naturally authoritative and try to curb freedom.
Premise:
4. In the United States, freedom of the individual is the most important thing.
Proposition: Since we love our freedom, and governments will naturally try to curb our freedom, we must use arms to protect ourselves.
BUT, those who are arguing against this are adding two extra premises, a supplement to #4
5. Personal liberty is not absolute and stops short of infringing upon another's freedom.
6. Some guns (hand-guns, machine guns) have created an environment that infringes upon another's freedom by denying them their personal safety. The guns of the 1700s would not do so
Conclusion: While the right to bear arms won us our freedom and was written into the constitution, in our current state, the right to bear arms has created an environment in which my right to personal safety has been violated. This right supplants the right to own a hand-gun.
When looking at the argument "well then we should just get rid of the first ammendment because we didn't have tv or internet then", it is ridiculous. The fact is, the emerging technology hasn't created a situation in which our right to personal safety is violated. To the extent it does, we do prevent full freedom of speech; example: sexual harassment cases. They are perfect examples.
|
|
|
Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Oct 11, 2006
|
Right. The minute them Yanks try and steal our weapons, we'll be defenseless against the New World Order. Or Mexico will try to re-take the Alamo. The only thing that stands between our freedom and the gas chamber is a group of us untrained, angry white men armed to the teeth, just like that guy who quoted Hitler said. In fact I, Yosemite Sam, believe our 2nd Amendment has already been watered down. We are guaranteed the right to bear the same arms as the government to prevent a fascist state. Back in the old days, that was muskets and cannons. The game has changed. I want a nuclear weapon. I want an F-18. I want a stinger missile. I want to watch them make big booms that make me feel powerful, cool, and safe under the pretext that I'm exercising a constitutional right. I am America and so can you.
And how bout them other rights? What about the right to kill your children in Virginia if they talk back to you? Kids are getting out of control these days. How about the right burn a witch? Or to own a slave? These were rights written 200 years ago, they should still be valid. How dare someone try to water down or update the constitution? Don't all of you understand that the founding fathers were profits? They knew exactly how the world would look centuries after their death, and realized that all this technology and social enlightenment should never let us stray from the path of owning guns. And slaves. And killing our women and children. Stop trying to use your Yankee brains!!! Stay American!!!!
|
|
|
Reputation:97
Level:Superstar
Since:Nov 23, 2007
|
|
Well said acamargo84, al least someone gets what i am saying.
Some people on here are getting the point, others however choose to be ignorant to the way society is these days. Everyone owning a gun is not the answer to anything. Everyone keeps brining up the right to bear arms to protect us from the goverment. Why do we have to protect ourselves from them, what they are all of the sudden going to turn around and imprison us and take our rights away. I think not. and stop brining up the holocoust, that was a different time in the world and i dont think that if Jewish people owned guns it would have eneded up any differently.
You guys need to face the facts that this is by far the most violent country in the world when it comes to gun violence. We have more trouble dealing with guns then most other countries in the world. And if we are supposed to be so much better than the rest of the world this is not the way to show it. If there are less guns there are less crimes.
And having a gun wont protect you from bullies. There are always going to be bullies in this world. And shooting them is not the way to get back at them.
|
|
|
Reputation:93
Level:All-Star
Since:Jan 14, 2008
|
|
"Your telling me Canada's healthcare is good, I suppose if I want some farmer trying to do double bypass surgery. Because of your healthcare system your doctors get paid less and your wait is like 16 hours because Little Timmy has a cold and has to go before someone who has a broken arms."
Again, you've clearly never lived in Canada. Emergency care is the same in Canada as in the United States. Wait times for things like heart transplants, broken bones, etc. are the same in Canada as in the US. For things like ACL surgery or rotator cuff surgery, yes they are significantly longer...because they are busy doing heart surgeries. Doctors get paid less, but cost of living is less. They still lead awesome lives, and go through the same medical training. But then let's take Little Timmy vs. the broken arms guy. Say the broken arms guy gets in 16 hours later to see a doc in the US (which he doesn't, but let's play your game), and they fix him up really well... Then in two months he looks at his hospital bill and finds a $5,000 co-payment and deductable because his insurance will only cover part of it.... Well, that sucks for him. Or better yet, he gets fixed up and doesn't have coverage, then his bill is $10,000. Or even better, he doesn't go to the hospital because he is afraid of the medical expenses! As for Universal healthcare, I would never want it here because there are too many people. It works for Canada because it has 29 million people.
As for being a loyalist? Never. I have spent 10 years as an TEEN in Canada. I was born in the US, have spent 4/5 of my life in the US, and will DIE in the US. I spent years in the officer corps in this country....Because I love my country. I love the people in it, I love the vastness and opportunity of it. Screaming "I LOVE AMERICA" doesn't mean you do, it just means you love a flag or symbol that you don't understand; it's a secular religion,.. and much like those who go to church every sunday, you don't understand the religion to which you belond. You have been taught to love a flag more than your neighbor (who is american, I may add). Open your eyes are realize that you have been duped; a veil has been pulled over your eyes so that you can think loving your country means insulting others' and owning guns.
|
|
|
Reputation:89
Level:All-Star
Since:Mar 20, 2008
|
|
fathobbits that was one of the most enlightening posts I've read today, I think you can I are speaking the same language.
As for the rest of you Loyalist who think you are real patriots (like myself), there is one thing your forgetting guns beat any combination of Rock, Paper, or Scissors. It is my right as an American Citizen to bear any kind of gun I want too. Personally I think that conceal weopan law is a bunch of garbage. I should have the right as an American citizen to have a holster for my gun.
I guess that griping all you Loyalists made have destroyed my rights again. I hope those trying to ban the second amendment look at themselves in the mirror and say "is this what John Hancock would want? Is it?"
|
|
|
Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Oct 11, 2006
|
|
Thanks Crzy Jo. Your post has confirmed much... and explained even more... about this issue and those debating it.
|
|
|
|
Level:Amateur
Since:Oct 29, 2006
|
|
This message has been removed by the administrator.
|
|
|
|
Level:Amateur
Since:Oct 29, 2006
|
|
This message has been removed by the administrator.
|
|
|
Reputation:94
Level:All-Star
Since:Apr 29, 2007
|
What's bad about northerners?
They are lay-a-bouts who have never done a day of work in their life and just collect welfare.
They tend to have these horrible accents (think New Yorka, and New Englada caa = car)
The tend to be more worried about social ills and injustice then doing anything to change any of them.
They are typically drunks, again think Boston here, or pot heads, think Vermont.
They tend to be extremely bigoted (think you, or think affirmative action which is keeping Asians out of school like MIT).
They tend to also be rednecks especially in the more rural New England states, never actually met a Nascar fan until I lived in New Hampshire for a year and it was pretty much the state sport.
|
|
