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Pitch Counts....Why Has It Changed???


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Pitch Counts....Why Has It Changed???
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Reputation:94
Level:All-Star
Since:Nov 27, 2006

May 9, 2008 1:09 pm

Steve,

The answer is simple, money.  They spend way too much on these guys today and that is the ballclubs way of protecting their investment.  When an owner has 60 or 70 million wrapped up in a guy than they want to make sure they get their money's worth. 

I do find it annoying to be watching a guy throw a perfectly good game and get lifted so the 8th inning specialist can come in and then the closer to finish it off.  But the game has changed since then.  Actually there is another reason for ya.  Bullpens have become a necessity.

It isn't that they can't throw that many pitches.  It is that management doesn't want them too.


Pitch Counts....Why Has It Changed???
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Reputation:98
Level:Superstar
Since:Apr 1, 2008

May 9, 2008 1:21 pm

Steve,

The answer is simple, money.  They spend way too much on these guys today and that is the ballclubs way of protecting their investment.  When an owner has 60 or 70 million wrapped up in a guy than they want to make sure they get their money's worth. 

While you're definitely correct that it's because of all the money the owners have invested in these pitchers, I still don't understand why things have changed.

Nolan Ryan pitched 332 innings in 1974 and nothing happened to him. The next year he worked 326 innings.  Last season, the ML leader in innings pitched was C.C. Sabathia with 241 IP.

Many pitchers used to throw the innings Ryan did and never got injured, yet nowadays we have all the arm injuries even with the pitch counts.

But the game has changed since then.  Actually there is another reason for ya.  Bullpens have become a necessity.

That's what I don't understand. The bullpens have only become a necessity as a result of the pitch counts. There would not have been a need for a Mariano Rivera 50 years ago, and that's why I believe relievers can now make the HOF. The main arguement against it is that historically relievers haven't made the HOF. But since the bullpens have become a major component of an effective pitching staff, I believe we will begin to see more relievers get inducted.


Pitch Counts....Why Has It Changed???
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Reputation:94
Level:All-Star
Since:Apr 4, 2008

May 9, 2008 1:31 pm

I'm certainly no expert in this matter, but I've heard that the slider and the split finger fastball do create a torque in a pitcher's delivery that probably risks injury more than say your basic fastball, curveball, change-up pitcher.   That may have alot to do with why so many pitchers experience arm trouble and are on and off the DL so often.  Its quite possible the Ryan just came from a better gene pool than everyone else as he's just a freak of nature.  Ryan also didn't mess around with sliders and split fingers either. 

Also in the day of the 6 and 7 innings starts we see today, I believe pitchers are putting more maximum effort into their pitching than pitchers of the past.  Back in the day of many complete games, pitchers were of the mindset that they were going to pitch at least nine innings that day and paced themselves accordingly. 

Thats my input...what do you think?   I also second bigd's compliment to you Steve

 


Pitch Counts....Why Has It Changed???
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Reputation:98
Level:Superstar
Since:Apr 1, 2008

May 9, 2008 1:42 pm

I'm certainly no expert in this matter, but I've heard that the slider and the split finger fastball do create a torque in a pitcher's delivery that probably risks injury more than say your basic fastball, curveball, change-up pitcher.   That may have alot to do with why so many pitchers experience arm trouble and are on and off the DL so often.  Its quite possible the Ryan just came from a better gene pool than everyone else as he's just a freak of nature.  Ryan also didn't mess around with sliders and split fingers either. 

Expert or not, you've provided me with the first idea that I can research for an actual explanation. Maybe it does have something to do with the assortment of pitches used now as opposed to the few they used way back.....And thx for the complinent KidDude.

Detroitbrewers, you had me splitting my sides with ur take on the way of life in the new age!


Pitch Counts....Why Has It Changed???
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Reputation:98
Level:Superstar
Since:Oct 18, 2006

May 9, 2008 1:43 pm
From a pitching standpoint a split finger fastball produces no more torque than a regular fastball on the arm. Sliders do, but pitchers in days of old threw the slide piece so that really doesn't matter. My feeling as a former pitcher is the shrinking strike zone where they expect the pitcher to place it on a tee for the hitter in order to facilitate more offense is largely responsible. Pitchers are being forced to throw more pitches per inning therefore the amount of IP goes down. Also having to pitch a stressful inning of thirty pitches in one inning does more wear and tear than three quick innings of 10 to 15 pitches per inning. Go back to the real strike zone and you may see innings pitched go up.

Pitch Counts....Why Has It Changed???
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Reputation:98
Level:Superstar
Since:Apr 1, 2008

May 9, 2008 1:48 pm

From a pitching standpoint a split finger fastball produces no more torque than a regular fastball on the arm. Sliders do, but pitchers in days of old threw the slide piece so that really doesn't matter. My feeling as a former pitcher is the shrinking strike zone where they expect the pitcher to place it on a tee for the hitter in order to facilitate more offense is largely responsible. Pitchers are being forced to throw more pitches per inning therefore the amount of IP goes down. Also having to pitch a stressful inning of thirty pitches in one inning does more wear and tear than three quick innings of 10 to 15 pitches per inning. Go back to the real strike zone and you may see innings pitched go up.

Very interesting Adrian, especially from a former pitcher. There were so many less runs (and therefore less pitches thrown) scored in those days, that it very well can have attributed to an increase in the number of innings able to be thrown.


Pitch Counts....Why Has It Changed???
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detroitbrewers
Level:Amateur
Since:May 11, 2007
May 9, 2008 1:55 pm
This message has been removed by the administrator.


Pitch Counts....Why Has It Changed???
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